Future inclusive: software for people

You’ve been CEO of G+D Netcetera for almost two years now, Carsten. What’s the biggest point of difference that you see in the software landscape, from when you started?

Certainly one thing that is evolving quickly is the realisation of just how integral software is to everyday life. For everyone! I think that realisation is increasing dramatically.

I’m German, and you know what’s happening in the automobile industry there. If you listen to the news, you’re hearing discussions about designing software that enables autonomous driving, electric mobility, that sort of thing. I think people realise there’s an industrial shift happening.

It is everywhere: in cars, in pharmaceuticals, in other industries. Software is already integral, and its role will only grow. All of us who work in the commercial and industrial spheres had better be prepared, and we need to grasp that this will not change. 

Some people are speaking about de-industrialisation, or at least a switch to what should be called service industries. That’s the transformation I believe we are currently in. And that will continue for the next 5–10 years for sure.

At another level, we’re seeing exponential improvements in technology. We can cluster machines in a way that we have a much better grasp of data. You can make sense of all that data, which leads to the topics of artificial intelligence (AI) and machine learning.

I also think there is a realisation that there’s something more dramatic happening. I don’t think everyone has still got their heads around the whole subject of AI, what that really means for the future.

We’re seeing regulators scrambling to get in front of it. Governments are talking about how best to organise themselves. It is a big discussion here in Switzerland (G+D Netcetera is headquartered in Zurich) and in Germany – indeed, around the world. How should universities educate students on these topics at scale?

There is a very real fear of missing out. “FOMO”, as the young people say. And it’s everywhere. At the national level, and of course in any kind of organisation. 

I think that is a big change. One way to manage that change is to focus on the people involved. These are big ideas, and they can be intimidating. Talking about people makes it more accessible, I think.

One hears the phrase “people-centric” a lot in the software field these days. What does it mean to you?

I have a personal belief that has developed over the course of my professional career. For 25 years now, working for IBM, for G+D, and now G+D Netcetera. In the end, everything organisations do is for people. You serve, you create value, but you don’t do it in “space”, in a vacuum. Of course you have key target groups, markets, things like that in mind, but really, it’s about people. Or it should be.

Let’s frame it as a question: how do companies define a purpose? Engineers craft software, but you must remember that people like you and me need to use them. The effectiveness, the fun people have with the software you have crafted, their wish to return to it depends on whether it is well designed, attractive, easy to use.

This must become part of our culture.

“Culture” is a good word. Let’s make it specific: what does it mean to you?

Culture is fundamental. How do we make a strong, self-learning, resilient organisation, one where people can find their own sense of belonging, and a reason to come to work every day?

Well, they must enjoy it. Speaking for our own organisation, we place a lot of effort on diversity and inclusion. We really encourage open and transparent discussions with our teams. This applies to everyone. I, for example, got 360-degree feedback from over 25 or 30 people this year. We are trying to do this at every level.

When I’m asked, “What is culture?” I always say that it’s a verb. It is behaviour. It is deeply rooted in an organisation, and it doesn’t change very quickly. But there are ways to move it and to develop it. We do it via our values like openness, respect, integrity, accountability, and trust. 

Nobody says this is easy. In software, we speak a lot about “sprints”. [Laughs.] But this is a marathon, not a sprint.

Let’s stay with culture. How can your industry guard against becoming focused on fixing technical issues? Not just developers, but also customers?

As always in software engineering, there is a difference between a requirement and a specification. Your requirement from the customer can be to “create the best app ever, the best user experience so our customers want to bank with us”.

But they may begin to say that the button for sending money should be on the left upper corner. And it should be this size. And the font should be this. Those are specifications. 

Design thinking is a method that we use, as it creates an environment where you forget about software technology for a bit. The question becomes, “How can we craft this experience? How can we engage people who come to us, in the best possible way?”

So, you design it, and test it with a group. Once you have their feedback, you come up with something new and then you start thinking, how do I make it happen in real life? What do I need to engineer in the background? How do I make sure that the flow of all that knowledge, that engagement and the information that is still required, is fulfilled by the underlying technology? When it comes together, that can be an “aha moment” for all concerned. 

I’ll give you an example as a counterpoint. We just received a request for proposal (RFP) that ran into thousands of pages. Delivery will take three to five years, but there are milestones mapped out, and there are penalties if specifications aren’t fulfilled. You might call this over-engineering. [Smiles.] 

Instead, the request could state, “We don’t really know what will be needed in five years, so why don’t we just start?”

So, we design an idea first, a vision of how this software could be used in the future. Then we make a first prototype, and test it, and perhaps we already have something that is quite close to what is actually required. And then we refine it.

I think this is a very promising, iterative approach.

We know that users must enjoy the software they’re using. Is there a question also of making the software you provide usable for employees?

As a company, we are in the B2B space. As an example, we make software for financial advisors, wealth managers, people like that.

But we also design apps. And mobile and web banking is a big part of our offering. There, the consumer or the end user is in focus. The whole design, the flow is really centred on that person.

People are people. We design with them in mind.

What trends are you seeing in the medium term in digital banking? What do you think your software engineers will still be working on in 2026?

One thing we’ve been discussing with some bank leaders here in Switzerland is how to balance “push” with “pull”. What that means is, banks – like any organisation – have certain things they want to market, or push. Mortgages, different accounts, a payment card, products of that nature.

But now they’re asking us – because of our design-thinking approach – what does the customer actually need? And that is the “pull” dimension. I think banks recognise that they can’t just sell their products anymore. It’s much more valuable for customers, especially those in the generations to come, to see banks that have a holistic approach and are focused on their needs. Again, this doesn’t happen overnight. It takes time. 

Digitalisation is another massive ongoing trend. Banks are reducing physical touchpoints. Customer-facing services are more and more digitalised. But then the paradigm changes. 

Previously, a customer had a need, let’s say for a savings account. The bank had certain conditions, and once those were met an account was opened. Now, the conversation can be about aspirations during their lifetime. Does the customer want a family? How do they want to prepare for their children’s university years? That is a consultative approach, and that is determining the way digital banking will evolve.

How much of that is being driven by the emergence of fintechs and neobanks?

I think the fintechs start with a focus on customers. They meet them where they are, they know their aspirations, they zero in on what they want. 

I think some established banks may have lost a bit of that focus, but they are also catching up here. Indeed, some of them are embracing it. They’ll keep their overarching brand, but then they’ll launch small “speedboats” of other brands that try a more agile, fintech approach. And then they see what they can learn from this approach and apply it across the entire bank.

I don’t think fintechs are prospering at the expense of other banks. But certainly, the emergence of neobanks was a wake-up call for the industry: “Don’t forget the customers!”

Stay people-centric?

Exactly.

Let’s talk about AI. The most visible thing in digital banking is chatbots. What are some of the more invisible ways in which machine learning is changing the industry?

I was recently at a conference called “AI at Work”. The question was about how AI can change the work environment for an organisation. What I’m hearing a lot from bank executives and public speakers is that the focus is on making internal procedures leaner, faster, more efficient. The notion of internal efficiency gains for an organisation is currently predominant.

These aren’t just potential gains. Better internal processes insulate you against future effects. You don’t want to launch a customer service that you aren’t completely in control of, for example. Nobody likes recalling or rolling back a service. AI can help with that.

As regards chatbots, they’re usually very simple. “Can you help me with this?” You get two or three options, then at some point you need to talk to a person. Our digital assistant is interesting, in this regard. It can analyse transaction history and offer advice, and even make transactions between accounts, while you’re speaking to it.

I think we, as a software company, we learn and find ways of working with new technologies. You also need to find your own rules and ethics for what you deal with. And then as people get more mature and more used to these ideas, then all these developments will happen.

Let’s talk about regulation. It is very much part of your ecosystem. What role does it play in the industry?

Regulation usually has a clear mission, which is to protect consumers. It protects people. And that’s something we must never forget.

People often think about regulation as something evil, something that puts barriers in the way. But let’s examine that notion. If you look at online payments for example, regulators mandate multi-factor authentication, which is a well-established technology that adds some friction to a transaction. But the regulation is there to ensure that the transaction is really what you want, and that the money does not get lost in space.

That friction serves a purpose. It is a reaction to a fact of life, namely that people don’t go shopping physically anymore. They do it online, and you need to be protected from fraud in this space as well.

I think of regulation as a driver for innovation. That’s how we think about it at G+D Netcetera. The challenge is to deliver technologies that keep personal and private data safe, while enabling new ways of interacting, and new ways of exchanging value.

Value seems a good way to segue into ESG (environmental, social, and governance) criteria. Everyone’s talking about it. How important do you think those conversations are for your industry?

The banking industry has been making payment cards from ocean plastics or other materials for a few years now. But for me, it isn’t about just providing these cards, but rather, designing and inhabiting a story, and demonstrating a difference in how you operate.

There is a bank in Australia that delivers ocean plastic cards. But also, for every mortgage it closes, it pledges to clean up a certain piece of the ocean or the beach, and its staff comes out on the weekend to make good on that promise!

As on beaches, so in browsers: how can software deliver a more sustainable and inclusive experience to end users?

Consider the example of older people. This is a demographic that is growing, while still economically active and involved in everyday life. My own mother is 84. She has an iPad. Would she be banking on this iPad? She hates it. She wants to go to the branch to collect money or do a transfer. She feels insecure with the tech.

I wouldn’t bother to go to a bank to do all this. I do everything online. In one generation, there’s a massive change in how people think and interact. That’s just the financial world we’re talking about. Your vision of software interaction absolutely needs to include the topic of inclusiveness. Our analysis shows that 20% of people have some sort of disability, either permanent or short-term. Elderly people will experience some of these impairments as they age. Our A11Y (accessibility) practice is really taking a stance in terms of developing usable apps and web services where everyone can participate. If you as a company are not involved in this area, then you’re doing something wrong.

It can mean making colours brighter, making fonts larger, among other things. If you do this, it always has a benefit, even for those who are not experiencing any impairment. This is something we take very, very seriously. And we make a point to offer this as part of our way of working.

Are regulations like the EU Accessibility Act 2025 a spur to industry?

There are different levels of compliance. The regulator gives you latitude. After that, it’s a conscious decision made by the organisation in question. Where do you want to land? 

You can do the base level, where you’re fulfilling the minimum required to be compliant. You can aim a bit higher. Or you can really stand out. 

If you are people-centric, customer-centric, if you value accessibility and inclusivity – then your answer to that question is quite clear. We know where we want G+D Netcetera to be.

Is the industry thinking about the future as well? How does it continue to be focused on the customers to come?

It’s a question we should all be asking ourselves. What about Generation Z? What about those who have come of age with all these technologies that offer every type of service, and now they come to you and think, “What will we get here”?

These are people who in 10 years will have a lot of money. They will have jobs and families, maybe run a company. Do you want them to remember you as an attractive provider of a service they wanted, or as just another boring entity? If you’re not thinking about that demographic, you need to start.

Published: 20/02/2025